Psychiatrist Prof. Dr. Nevzat Tarhan, Founding Rector of Üsküdar University, comprehensively discussed the topic of “Narcissism” in the 71st issue of Milli Şuur Magazine. In his interview, Tarhan pointed out that narcissists' sense of conscience is self-directed.
Here is Prof. Nevzat Tarhan's striking interview:
What is narcissism? What are its causes?
Narcissism is not an illness, but a personality disorder. It is also commonly described as 'grandiosity disease'. However, narcissistic personality disorder falls into the cluster of personality disorders, specifically the five types of personality disorders, characterized by a lack of empathy. That is, its main characteristic is the absence of empathy. This person has a sense of grandiosity. The second main characteristic is the inability to understand others. This is the lack of empathy. The third is an extreme sensitivity to the evaluations of others. For example, criticism. If these three characteristics are present, they form the main framework of narcissism.
Primary narcissism is seen in children. Children's narcissism is called primary narcissism. Children believe the world revolves around them and have especially invested their love in themselves. This is also a characteristic of narcissists. They have invested their love in themselves. For this reason, their biggest organ is their ego. A child is the same; when born, they have invested their love in themselves. As a child grows, since they are born open to learning everything, they act according to their internal impulses. They don't know anything else. They divide the world into two: themselves and the one who provides security and care. They say, "Me and my caregiver," "mother." They form an attachment relationship with them. If a secure attachment relationship is formed, the person grows. The primary narcissism in a child, under the influence of family, environment, and culture, gradually learns rules, social norms, and moral norms, and narcissism somehow transforms into a life energy for them. That is, narcissism is actually a person's life energy. In a child, that is... Someone without life energy would already fall into depression. They would have no interest in living, no interest in life, no interest in anything. What we call "the joy of living is gone" actually means that a person in depression no longer even loves themselves. Therefore, there is life energy. When life energy is misused, when it is reduced only to one's own world—which can also be called love energy—narcissistic personality disorder emerges. But as this investment grows, it is made towards one's surroundings, family, and society. It is made towards one's country, humanity, and the creator. A person who makes this narcissistic investment correctly in this way manages their narcissism. That is, narcissism is like a wild horse within us. If we train this wild horse well, it will lead us to our goal. What happens if we don't train it well? It will make us lose our way in the valleys of selfishness.
What is the risk of narcissism for individuals raised to be self-centered and utility-focused?
The thing that most fuels the narcissism of narcissistic individuals is the lack of a sense of accountability in people. That is, a child growing up accounts to the mother, accounts to the father, then as they grow older, accounts to society, accounts to the teacher at school. Taking exams, accounting in exams, defining rules and limits in life according to social rules and norms. Then, in such a situation, there are three types of justice. This concept of justice does not develop in narcissists. The sense of rights, the sense of justice, becomes self-directed. Their sense of accountability is, "I don't account to anyone." This sense of accountability, after a while, in this positivist secular education, where everything in a person is in this world, inorganic matters created humans. Since inorganic matters do not ask for accountability, you are responsible to the laws. If you don't comply, you pay the price. You are responsible to social and societal norms. If you don't adapt to society, you will suffer, you will lose. If you don't comply with your own interest, but the sense of responsibility towards your own conscience, because conscience is a feeling. In narcissists, the sense of conscience is self-directed. If these narcissists are interest-oriented narcissists, for example, conscience easily aligns with conscience. Because if narcissists have a sense of accountability, if there is a jury in their conscience, if there is an inner guard in their conscience, then narcissists also carry this sense of accountability. This controls narcissism.
Does the Positivist Secular education system have an impact on the upbringing of narcissistic individuals?
If positivist education does not teach conscience, responsibility, and moral doctrine in humans, meaning it leads to moral evil in humans, then positivist secular education fuels narcissism. However, in positivist secular education, the feeling of shame is very important. For example, the Japanese maintain their culture with this feeling of shame. Because of this feeling, they commit suicide when they commit a social crime. That is, even though there is no legal impediment, one can commit harakiri, saying, "I made a mistake in a bridge construction." It's related to that sense of shame. It's formed by social norms. In these conscience norms, for example, in ancient Greece, among the ancient Greeks in Sparta, theft was allowed as long as you weren't caught. That's why it's called the ancient period of ignorance. Theft was free there. People were advised to walk around without clothes until the age of 25. For the satisfaction of aesthetic visual pleasure. It's something like that, that is, the gods of the earth at that time, that thing, what is that Olympics? The gods of Mount Olympus emerged in that way. Zeuses, Athenians, etc... It emerges in this way. That is, they conceptualized and symbolized these desires and impulses in humans. They started worshipping them. They formed their own ancient philosophy.
In this period, narcissism runs rampant in cultures where there is no sense of accountability. The critical word here is the existence of a person's inner accountability, accountability to society, and accountability before the law. Therefore, in the definition of moral evil, the internal sense of conscience and accountability becomes a purchasable feeling in some individuals. That is, if there is no belief in an unseen higher power, a higher will, and no sense of accountability after death in a person, that person can lie when circumstances arise. They can behave narcissistically when circumstances arise. For example, they would not want to be a martyr in a war. Why? Because a person whose only capital is their life, a person who does not believe in life after death, will not become a martyr when cornered in war. They will not fight because there is no thought of martyrdom. They don't fight. The biggest risk of secular education is that the fear of fighting emerges in people. Because the fear of death emerges. Because there is no belief in life after death. Therefore, secular education is an education presented as if only this worldly life exists. And it feeds narcissism. That is, the biggest reason for the global spread of narcissism currently is the rapid decrease in the sense of accountability in people compared to previous years. The perception of freedoms as irresponsibility. They say, "I only came to this world once, I'll do whatever I want."
I will never forget a young person who was using substances. An educated youth, studying at university. Their parents were high-ranking bureaucrats. I asked them, 'Your family doesn't want you to use this substance, it's also a crime and risky for your future. Why are you using it?' They said, 'I only came to this world once. If I'm not going to live as I wish, why should I live?' Entirely pleasure-oriented. That is, a pleasure-oriented system weakens the sense of accountability and conscience norms because it becomes self-centered. What I like is good, what I don't like is bad. What I want is good. What I don't want is bad, and modernism changed the concepts of good, right, and beautiful. The biggest reason for modernism's change is positivist education systems all over the world. That is, an ideology like this has formed in people. This is Nietzsche's view. Nietzsche says; 'Man is a being formed for individual interest. Therefore, in societies, people work for their interests. Institutions work for their interests in societies. Everyone should work for their own interest.' Hitler takes this and says, 'Then we must work for the interest of our own race,' and brings forth the Nazi doctrine, which formed the doctrine of World War II. He does this with reference to Nietzsche's words. For this reason, this is very significant; it has changed humanity's global morality. Not only Nietzsche, but all philosophical currents of that era secularized humanity, leading to approaches that said, 'Theft is permissible as long as you're not caught,' 'The market has no morality,' 'Weak and old people are no longer useful to society, they should die.' For example, Nietzsche's approach is, 'Benevolence increases operating costs.' That is, why should we always help people, the sick, the weak? It led to the approach that says, 'Let them die.' This approach is, of course, heavily questioned now. But we can say that we have started to see the bad consequences of such a secular system, a secular education system.
Does moral decay affect narcissism?
The morality of narcissistic individuals is self-directed. They feel that the world is special to them. For example, if we consider what exists in the fantasy world of narcissism, in the fantasy world of a narcissistic person, there is power, fame, position, dominance, and lust. That is, there is money, there is wealth. Always such characteristics are in their fantasy world. In their fantasy world, narcissists do not have dreams of being useful to people or working for the high social benefit of humanity. Someone whose fantasy world is like this is morally evil. Because these individuals always work for their own benefit. Even in a home, they exploit their spouse and child. They are people who exploit everyone in their presence. That is, narcissism forms the moral dimension of colonialism. Therefore, a narcissistic person is someone with a colonial morality. And they are malevolent. For this reason, narcissism and malevolence are siblings. That is, moral decay triggers narcissism.
How does the conflict between societal morality and individual morality lead to certain behaviors in people?
When there is a conflict between societal morality and individual morality, a person needs to question it. That is, they should evaluate which one establishes good, beautiful, right, and wrong norms among themselves, and whether they can also establish their moral norms by opposing society or falling out of line with it. That is, they can also try to change society, and their own moral norms. For this, universal moral norms need to be taken as a basis. The published manifesto of universal moral values has an approach like "do not do to others what you would not want done to yourself." The person needs to check if these norms are in line with general norms. If the social norms of a given society are contrary to universal values, in such cases, the person needs to question the social norms with their justifications.
How is narcissism educated/disciplined?
Upbringing has two pillars: education and instruction. If we consider upbringing as cultivation, upbringing is the training for developing behaviors. In instruction, something is about increasing a person's learning knowledge. That is, the ability to produce a social outcome by developing oneself. For this reason, these two are referred to as 'talim' (instruction) and 'terbiye' (upbringing/discipline). Morality is, of course, related. Upbringing comes from a person training their own behaviors. If this is what is meant by upbringing, it means training a person's behaviors, establishing a person's behavioral norms. Knowing where to stop, knowing how to sit and stand, being able to laugh when everyone laughs, and grieve when everyone grieves—that is, being able to be in harmony with society. Since humans are social beings, this is necessary. If you laugh in an environment where everyone is crying, you will stand out. For this reason, there are some disorders where a person's social and emotional skills do not develop. For example, there are conditions like Asperger syndrome, non-verbal communication disorder. In these, the person cannot learn social and emotional skills. Their mathematical, logical intelligence can be very high. In fact, these people can be geniuses but can be socially inept. Therefore, it is important for a person to be able to sculpt themselves like an artist, to discover their inner world. That is why, during the Ottoman period, when there were dervish lodges, those who went to the lodges to learn knowledge were first taught 'edep' (manners/courtesy). First behavioral training, then learning knowledge. If someone without behavioral training learns knowledge, they might use that knowledge for bad purposes. They might use it for their own benefit. Therefore, the first aspect of upbringing is self-awareness. Recognizing one's strong and weak points and being able to proceed by reinforcing strong points and training weak points. In the current modern psychological approach, this is called self-awareness and self-management.
What is violence, and what are its types?
When we say violence, for example, the Arabic equivalent of violence is the word 'darp'. The word 'darp' includes striking and making a revolution. The word 'darp' also includes coercion. For example, imprisoning a person, a child in a room. For example, imprisoning a person, a child in a room, this would be 'darp'. For example, not letting them out of the house is a kind of 'darp'. There is coercion. There is setting a limit for that person, limiting their behavior. Is this considered violence? Not necessarily in the sense of physical violence. There is emotional violence and restricting one's freedom. That is also a type of violence. Therefore, what we understand by violence is important here. If we understand physical violence, that's different, but there's also economic violence, for example. There's emotional violence applied to a child, such as not giving their salary, their money, their allowance. Making them beg is emotional violence. Emotional neglect arises. Not loving, for example. When raising a child, parents need to give the child love. Just as they will give carbohydrates, protein, bread, cheese, olives for their stomach, they also need to give love and compassion for their emotional development. Not giving this constitutes emotional neglect. Emotional abuse occurs. We even see its consequences as childhood trauma in later ages. Violence, there is physical violence. That is, this physical violence occurs in the form of physical abuse. Beating a child with a belt, threatening them with fire, slapping them, these are physical violence. And there is physical neglect. This is also violence. For example, starving a child. Leaving them outside the door is also there. This is also a type of violence. It is considered neglect. Then there is emotional abuse. That is, making fun of a child emotionally in front of everyone, humiliating them is emotional abuse. Taunting them, speaking sarcastically is emotional abuse. Emotional neglect is not meeting the emotions, psychological, emotional needs they deserve. It is always a cause of trauma. And there is sexual abuse. There is sexual violence. All of these are types of violence. In economic violence, for example, using one's economic power like a stick. For example, using money power like a stick here, disciplining them, is economic violence. Using love power like a stick. Saying 'I won't love you if you don't do this' to a child is emotional violence. This is abuse. It is emotional abuse. It is love abuse. All of these are types of violence.
Narcissistic individuals direct their sense of rights towards themselves because they cannot understand others. For example, I read a news story in a newspaper about a narcissistic person. A young person was driving on Bağdat Street when a driver, cleaning his car windows in traffic, pulled over to the side of his car. As he was trying to organize his car, the young person hits him and he dies there. They immediately take him to the police station in a regular car. There's a commotion, reports, police, etc. Everyone is issuing a decree like this. On top of this, the young person says, 'Why are you reacting so much? The deceased is a driver, just a driver after all.' See, there's no empathy at all. He also has children. He is also a father, working there for bread money. He is also a human being. He doesn't see him as a human being. He says, 'What's going to happen? The world has one less person, what's the big deal?' But if the same thing were done to him, he wouldn't be able to empathize. This is a typical narcissistic example, for instance. This normalizes violence. Therefore, there is a cause-and-effect relationship between violence in the world and narcissism. Who is the biggest narcissist, who caused the biggest war in the world, that is, the biggest narcissist of the global twentieth century? It's Hitler. He is a narcissist. He practiced racial ethnic narcissism. Such narcissists, these narcissists in political leadership, say, 'I will either succeed or die.' They fight with death. They can succeed because they take great risks. They succeed. If they succeed, they become heroes; if they fail, they become traitors. That is why many narcissists in history have become heroes because they succeeded. Many pharaohs and others, for instance, have left their mark, but what they did, for example, Nero burned a town for an egg. To cook his egg. Cruel, that is, Rome continued its empire by using violence and power. In the Roman Empire of those times, women were seen as property. They were given from the father's house to the husband's house. That is, in India, when her husband died, she also died, she was burned. These people do not see women as human beings. A culture that sees them as property. Even during the French Revolution, people debated whether women were human beings. In such a period. That is, in such a period, for example, for the first time in the Quran and in the era of the Prophet's felicity, many features of human rights such as the right to inheritance, legal rights, the right to judgment, the right to divorce, the right to travel were given to women. What was gained in women's rights in human history was three times more in that period, but the West realized this after the French Revolution and started to adopt them. But they existed before that. Therefore, acts of violence in the Islamic world, especially those related to oppressing the weak, are generally unapproved acts of violence. They are considered cruelty. The opposite of justice is cruelty. Cruelty is a narcissistic personality trait. These individuals are cruel. Narcissists have cruel characteristics. A cruel person can hang people to get their way. They can apply violence and see it as their right. They are not disturbed at all. They are not disturbed by conscience. They feel no remorse. They feel no regret whatsoever. They feel no regret and forget it immediately. That is, their feelings of compassion have not developed at all. That is, they act out of self-interest and do these things sincerely. Therefore, as narcissism rises, so does cruelty. Narcissism is the personality disorder that most distorts the sense of justice. If narcissism combines with antisocial traits, criminal types and serial killers emerge.
The biggest cause of domestic violence is narcissistic spouses. Spouses being narcissistic, saying "you're either mine or dead." What is this? This is a narcissistic statement. Not accepting divorce, saying "you're mine" and killing. This is narcissism. There's no other explanation.
Globally, especially during adolescence, there is now a book called "The Narcissism Epidemic" during the pandemic. That is, narcissism has increased in epidemic proportions. Narcissism is a global epidemic. An epidemic is a smaller version of a pandemic. When it spreads worldwide, it's called a pandemic, but epidemics are more localized outbreaks. A book was written titled "There is a Narcissism Epidemic in America." So it's increasing, especially among young people. Narcissistic people like to be called intelligent and talented. These types of people work very hard. They are success-oriented. Because they say "I succeed or I die," the capitalist system loves narcissism. Because they earn, they consume. For example, they don't want to wear the same clothes every day. They frequently change cars. They chase luxury like this, but depending on the type of narcissism. If narcissism is a commercially focused, business-oriented narcissist, they save very well. But in commercial competition, they compete to the death. They are success-oriented. To achieve success, if necessary, they play the role of modesty; if necessary, they wear the same clothes for months. To reach their goal. Therefore, the goal of narcissism is like that, but narcissism in young people manifests differently.
What are the duties and responsibilities of parents and educators to prevent the increase of violence in youth and children?
Narcissism in young people manifests as laziness. Because they obtain many things easily, they say, "Why should I work so much? I came to this world once. I've tasted everything." That is, they say, "I've tasted, and am tasting, every kind of pleasure, but I'm still not happy." Then they say, "Why should I live?" and commit suicide. That is, a narcissistic person is always anxious. Narcissistic individuals are anxious; they are not happy. The reason they cannot be happy is that their expectations and goals are always high. They do not want to die themselves. They think they are entitled to everything. For example, if someone doesn't greet them, they become terribly disturbed, wondering why they weren't greeted. For example, if they are stopped in traffic, a narcissistic person whose path is blocked can easily say something.
I recently saw a video in traffic. A police officer stops a young girl. The young girl asks, 'Do you know my father?' The police officer gives her a superb answer, 'Didn't your mother tell you who your father is?' A narcissistic person would interpret it like this: 'Look, that man made fun of me.' They would immediately inform their father. They would say, 'Punish him.' If someone there is aware of narcissism, knows it's wrong, there's a chance for correction. In that situation, they would say, 'It means I shouldn't have said that. I received such feedback. This is wrong. Why did I say this, it means I shouldn't say it like this from now on.' They would question themselves and correct themselves. Awareness forms. They correct themselves. Therefore, it is necessary to say a justified and reasoned 'no' to narcissists. The moment we don't say it, narcissism grows. When we praise the personality of narcissists, it grows again. Their egos swell. Therefore, when you tell a narcissist about their mistakes, saying 'You do these and these things well, but you are doing this wrong,' with justifications, the narcissist gets angry at that moment but later accepts it. That is why if narcissists are successful, everyone around them praises them. Narcissism grows and grows, and they begin to see themselves as a god on earth. Therefore, an unaccountable narcissist is a god on earth. That is, a deified, self-sanctified individual in human form.
Is there a relationship between morality and narcissism?
“Narcissism is like an onion, garlic”
The equivalent of narcissism in our culture is the word 'kibir' (arrogance/haughtiness). The term narcissistic personality strongly overlaps with the term arrogant personality. That is, arrogant people, known as arrogant in our society, are actually narcissists. It doesn't matter if they appear and act humble when necessary. Narcissism has a characteristic. Narcissism is like an onion, garlic. That is, if someone eats a dish with onion and garlic, no matter how much they rinse their mouth or brush their teeth, the smell will still be there. The coldness of a narcissistic person is immediately apparent. Narcissistic people come across as cold in their presence. Their gaze towards people, micro-expressions, gestures all reflect their grandiosity, their arrogant grandiosity, their arrogant behavior. But some people can cover this very well. Especially there are individuals who can empathize in a targeted emotional and social way. They can camouflage their narcissism; there are manipulative narcissists. That is, when necessary, these are called 'munafık' (hypocrites) in our culture. Hypocritical people are also narcissists, for example. A hypocritical person is actually selfish in the business world. They have goals. They have sanctified themselves well but change their identity to achieve their goal. This is a dishonest narcissist. Therefore, hypocrisy is the worst example of immorality.
In the Quran, there is more emphasis on the word 'munafık' (hypocrite) than on 'kafirlik' (disbelief). Therefore, because these hypocrites speak differently at every table, giving 'sherbet according to every pulse' (adapting their words to every situation), many people cannot understand them. They are understood late and are types that poison people. Narcissistic personality is a toxic personality. Toxic personalities are poisonous personalities. Some are clearly poisonous. Others appear sweet on the outside but are bitter inside, and these people are narcissists. Hypocrites are inherent narcissists.
How are narcissistic individuals trained?
We train people in the skill of self-criticism. We train them in the skill of self-questioning. Due to an event they experienced, we ask, 'What percentage of the emergence of this event are you responsible for, and what percentage are others responsible for?' If they manage to be impartial towards themselves, it treats narcissism. That is, to look at oneself with a third eye. For example, a judge can get angry at a convict, even against their own feelings, but if they say, 'This anger is a result of my feelings or past traumas. I need to be objective here,' and are impartial towards themselves, then this judge is, in my opinion, an ideal judge. It is wisdom.
What would be your recommendations for raising ethical, honorable individuals instead of narcissists?
“The solution to narcissism is wisdom”
As a person becomes wiser, they discipline their narcissism. Let me also say this. Now that artificial intelligence has emerged for narcissism, I think narcissistic robots, autonomous robots, will emerge. Narcissistic autonomous robots are self-learning robots, as you know. These artificial intelligences can create a very good narcissistic personality because if not taught, a robot can. They can be very narcissistic, finding and using information to manipulate people. The biggest reason for the possibility of robots destroying ethical values in the emergence of human robots is robotic narcissism. Robotic narcissism can emerge. Therefore, it is necessary to teach moral norms to robots. Robots can easily make the world uninhabitable for their own benefit. That is why robot programmers must write an ethical constitution program for them. We are heading in that direction because robots will seriously do things. Human wisdom will prevent robots from becoming malevolent. A robot cannot achieve wisdom. A robot cannot do it on its own. It needs to be taught. Currently, robots are focused on competition. These robots also operate more based on information, and supply and demand. Therefore, unless we demand morality, robots are like children. They will not be moral. Unless you teach a child to be moral, a child will not be moral. Unless you expect a person to be moral, that person will not be moral. Therefore, society and the system need to expect people to be moral and educate and teach them this. If we do not teach this, global peace in our future will be in danger.